The secret to Egoraptor’s success on DanceOn

I’ve been watching with amusement the rants of Lindsey Stirling fans and their complaints that my son, Arin (aka Egoraptor) is leading in the vote count on DanceOn.com. I’ve been participating in my usual Paparaptor stalking style up until this morning, when I found myself unable to log in to the website and vote for my son. I have no idea what the voting will mean in the actual overall weight of the contest. The website description hasn’t given a clue. I’ve been opening a half dozen copies of Google Chrome at one time and calling DanceOn’s Egoraptor page, so that I could circumvent the 30 second timer. I actually saw the tip from one of Lindsey Stirling’s supporters. But I digress.
Apparently my votes triggered some safeguards on the site and my login no longer works. UPDATE: Apparently there was a problem with Authentication using Twitter. That has been resolved and I’m now able to vote. Thanks admin at Danceon.com. That’s OK. I seriously doubt my votes will mean a whole lot in the overall trend and it will allow me to get back to practicing my guitar, which I should have been doing instead of voting so my son might win $50,000.

OK, I’ve digressed enough. This wasn’t really about me being locked out of the site, because I’m just a 60 year old fart and my votes don’t count for much. The real reason for this post is to share with you my years of wisdom(?) on why Arin is in the number one spot on this web site, even though #3(Lindsey Stirling) has more subscribers to her Youtube channel than Arin.

Let me preface this by saying that I am a fan of Lindsey Stirling. She’s a very talented young violinist and she clearly has found a niche that works for her, she writes her own music, produces her own videos and it doesn’t hurt that she’s cute as a button. She’s got over 3.6 million subscribers to her Youtube channel. I’ve subscribed to it. She’s definitely a breath of fresh air compared to much of what is put out as popular music today. But again, I digress. I’m not here to critique her. Let me just say, I think she’s awesome.

Lindsey’s fans (at least the ones posting on the DanceOn website) are aghast that somehow, Arin (Egoraptor) has managed to slide past Lindsey in to first place in the voting (which the website still hasn’t mentioned how that will be weighted into the final tally). Lindsey has 3 times the subscribers that Arin has on his Egoraptor channel and about 3 times as many subscribers as the Game Grumps channel, which Arin also produces and is a major participant.

Here are my thoughts.

1. Lindsey Stirling has 52 videos on her Youtube channel with +471 million views since she started her channel in 2007. Arin (Egoraptor) has 76 videos with 179 million views since he started his channel in 2006. By those figures alone, one would expect Lindsey to have a distinct advantage. But the spoiler in all this is the GameGrumps channel. Game Grumps came into being on July 10, 2012. To date, the channel has 1.2 million subscribers, with 317 million views. But GameGrumps has uploaded almost 1100 videos. For most of the first year of GG existance, two videos were released each day. Other than a brief period in late May and early June of 2013 that continued, until about mid June, when GameGrumps added the Steam Train programs to the mix. That upped the average daily uploads to 4 3 videos, or about 45 30~40 minutes of content per day to their catalogue. UPDATE: I can’t count. The average is 3 per day. Usually 2 Grumps and 1 Steam Train.

2. Audience immersion. The GameGrumps material is in your face. The Grumps, Arin and Dan and Steam Train (the other program on the Game Grumps channel) with Ross and Dan talk to their listeners rather than play music. Two completely different approaches. Sometimes it’s just about a video game they are playing. Other time’s they talk about things in their lives or topics in the news or literally just about anything they happen to think of. But mainly, it’s about things that draw the listener in. The Grumps and Steam Train are genuinely nice people who happen to be very engaging to the demographic of their fans. To give you an idea of where the Grumps may roam, check out the Grumps video posted 11-19-2013, Game Grumps Wind Waker 19 where Dan talks about dealing with depression and OCD in his life. If you’re between 12 and 30 years of age, you probably can relate or have a good friend who has gone through the same situation.

3. Views. The GameGrumps and Steam Train videos released on 11-19-2013 have each amassed between 130,000 and 150,000 views in about 24 hours. That’s a lot of views. On an average day, GameGrumps averages around 800,000 views of their material. Based upon 1.2 million subscribers and 800,000 views per day, statistically, about 66% of the Game Grumps subscriber base checks the Grumps Youtube page each day. If you assume an average length of 10 minutes (their videos actually average about +11 minutes), that’s 8 million viewer minutes per day, most of which is actually listening to thoughts, jokes, and opinions.

Lindsey Stirling gets about 1.1 million views per day, clearly more than the Grumps. Her videos average somewhere between 5 and 6 minutes. Her subscriber base is 3.6 million subs. So, statistically about 30% of her subscribers check her site daily.

4. Fish out of water.
Actually it makes a lot of sense. Lindsey’s views come from people who want to listen to her music and watch the elegance of her videos. Lindsey dances in her videos. This isn’t terribly far outside of what she does in her performance videos. Just no violin, which is her strongest suit. People watch her, and a lot of her younger fans wish they could be like her.

Arin’s views come from people who listen to his viewpoints, jokes and opinions every day. Every day Arin plays a video game. Sometimes he’s good at a game, other times he’s awful. But the viewers come to listen to him be funny, usually at his own expense. This is no different. His fans are coming to hear and see him doing something else that he’s not comfortable in doing and his observations on what he is doing. This is what he does best. People watch Arin and they realize, “Hey this guy is a klutz, just like me.”

5. Social Media
From the DanceOn comments on Lindsey Stirling’s latest DanceOn video comes this quote from Fred, “How come Ego has 130k views?? We ”only” have 74k, which is already the double of the others’ (around 35k)…
And WTH, he got only 30 Likes, still ZERO Tweets and 26 comments… We have more than 10 times these stats, yet we are 3rd? Makes no F-ing sense at all!”

Makes perfect sense to me. Arin’s social media isn’t Facebook, Google Plus or Twitter. It’s Reddit. Egoraptor has a sub-Reddit. GameGrumps has a sub-Reddit. So does Lindsey Stirling.
The Egoraptor sub-Reddit has about 6 to 10 people pass through and read the message board every 15 minutes. That’s about one or two people more than the Lindsey Stirling sub-Reddit. But the GameGrumps sub-Reddit averages around 400 people through the sub-Reddit every 15 minutes. In all cases, these are people who actively seek out information about the personalities of Egoraptor, Lindsey and GameGrumps. It’s powerful.

Like I said at the beginning, I’m a fan of Lindsey Stirling and have nothing but kind things to say about her. She’s not running the campaign for votes on DanceOn any more than Arin is running his campaign. But it’s incredibly disturbing to see the fans of such a talented and lovely young woman looking for any excuse why their preferred celebrity isn’t running away from the rest of the pack. The few who are complaining make the fans look like a bunch of whining, spoiled children who aren’t getting their way. Each Youtube artist in this selected group of 8 brings their own particular group of fans to the website. Each Youtube personality appeals to different demographics within the Youtube audience. Vote for your favorite and stop worrying about what the other people are doing. The fact that your celebrity isn’t in first place doesn’t mean the ones who are ahead of her are cheating.

How would you feel if your celebrity was in first place and everyone else was accusing her fans of cheating to get her there?

12 Comments

  1. doctorhair says:

    Lovely write-up, Paparaptor. It’s good to see someone tear down these weird little excuses that fans like to make. I’ve never seen it done with such thoroughness and intelligence.

  2. MrScottyTay says:

    I agree with absolutely everything you’ve said, and all the while I didn’t skip a single word in this, it was a beautiful read in it’s own right. I guess it’s just better than the usual drivel I see written on the internet (not to take away from your writing ability or anything ;) ).

  3. conrad500 says:

    Also ego’s fanbase from newgrounds! Don’t… don’t forget them! Nvm you can (<3)

  4. Zeus Kabob says:

    Fun read. Thanks for the writeup Paparaptor! :)

  5. #KSLL says:

    But why was lindsey on first place in the first weeks and then suddenly ego passed her and she hasn’t got any chance to become 1st again?? (Please don’t think i hate egoraptor, i like his videos :))
    And i’m sure there are cheater in this competition because there are people who can do 50 votes in a couple of minutes (and that’s impossible ) :) anyways, good luck egoraptor :)

  6. Old_Fart_With_guitars says:

    Lindsey was in first place for the first day or so. Why? Arin was out of the country on his honeymoon and not doing much of anything on social media. In short, he didn’t tell his fans what was going on. A couple of fans who use the Game Grumps sub-reddit happened upon it and posted to the sub-reddit. From that point forward Arin has pretty much been in 1st position. When they reset the vote counters (I believe it’s on Monday), Lindsey has gone back to the #1 position for a short period, but by the end of Monday, it seems to settle in and she moves to second place.

    From what I noticed, after the second or third week, the timing issues on the voting got tightened up quite a bit. It was about that time that fans started finding Lindsey Stirling slipping to 3rd place. That leads me to believe that the 20 tab browsers that several of Lindsey’s commenters mentioned were being locked out of continuing that pattern. That leads me to believe that locking out the robo-voters affected Lindsey’s vote counts more than Egoraptors.

  7. John says:

    Excellent breakdown, Papa-Raptor. Really upset me to see Sam Pepper accusing ‘nerds and ‘hackers’ of somehow rigging things in Arin’s favor. Is such an indictment on a certain fanbase really appropriate on a show which seems so geared towards diversity?
    Also upsetting to see a lot of comments implying Ego’s fanbase is made up solely of children. I mean yeah, I grew up with your son’s remarkable work, but I don’t consider myself a child.

    Again, cheers for the great summary. Keep up the good work!

    • Old_Fart_With_guitars says:

      John, the sad part that Arin has learned is that the more success one achieves, the more some people who will resent you for it. Arin didn’t enter the contest because he needed the money. He entered because he was asked. I suspect the same is true for Lindsey Stirling and possibly a few more. Arin did it because it sounded like fun. Did he want to win it? Absolutely, as did Lindsey and probably everyone else, each for their own reasons. I saw the video with Lancifer and Sam Pepper. I don’t know what they said before or afterwards and it really doesn’t matter. Whether they meant it or not really is irrelevant. I would assume that the consultants running the voting website would have enough web savvy to realize if something like that were to take place and be able to thwart such things. Personally, I can tell you that Arin would not condone any illicit efforts to pad his vote count. But it’s difficult to convince someone who isn’t in first place and wants to see a conspiracy behind every mystery, no matter the size.

      As to implications about his fan base, that’s not anything that should ever bother anyone. the older you get, the less you are concerned about how someone might want to stereotype you. Most negative things said about people, both those who have gathered some amount of notoriety and those who haven’t are said by small minds who care more about tearing others down than building themselves up. It’s been that way forever and will be that was as long as people exist. It’s not good, it’s not bad. It just is.

      Thanks for the kind comments! Peace be with you!

  8. Lawro says:

    It’s absolutely beautiful to read through your words, Paparaptor. I’m practically in love with philosophy and all the doctrines that accompany it, and I scour the internet to find people who think the way you do. The philosophy, mentality of “Life is as it is, best to accept it and be at peace with it”. It’s not an easy philosophy to adapt to, we’re all humans at the end of the day and we all hold our prejudices and our resentments, but it is only through a series of difficult hardships or of extensive thought and wisdom that such an idea can be realized.

    Earnestly, your words are a breath of fresh air. I strive to be a writer, perhaps not a straight up philosopher as my passion lies in story telling, but certainly an extensive deal of ideals and thought are placed into my writing.

    I also sincerely hope that you get to read what I’m about to write, because I’d like to hear from you, with someone of your age and wisdom, because I know that by the date of this post and my comment is a long distance, so you might not receive it.

    My words don’t mean much now. I’m only 17. I know numbers shouldn’t dictate how wise one is, but age certainly means that there is a distinctive gap in its definition. You’ve had more time to think, and wisdom is often polished by age. I concern over being an authority in wisdom mostly because in me, I feel doubt. Many times I’ve wondered whether I’m just a child with grown thoughts. I find comfort in reading your words because they’re a lot like what I’ve managed to develop in my experience as a growing artist.

    I like to think I’ve been a philanthropist, a masochist, a sadist, an anthropologist, a connoisseur, a critic, a reviewer, a spectator to humanity. I’ve spent my life being an observer. Few times being the protagonist/antagonist myself, fewer times being the side character, and mostly always being the spectator. I’ve given my life a lot of thought for my age, and at the end of the day, the words that speak truest to me are the words that of acceptance. I even made a quote. Feel free to take it, I’m sure it won’t ever be used often.

    “It’s wisdom to accept, ignorance to fight.”

    Fighting isn’t exactly a bad thing either. Sometimes it takes wisdom to know when to fight. It takes wisdom to know if the ends justify the means by which you fight for, and how you fight. For loved ones or for a purpose far greater than yourself. Often times this idea clashes with existentialism, the mentality of considering life itself to be like dust in the wind.

    It’s a dim philosophy that often strips meaning from a lot of things, and it’s usually associated with many signs of depressions or saddening emotions. The only mentality that can trump it 100% without holding doubt in the heart of those who experienced it before is the one that you yourself hold Mr. Hanson. Acceptance.

    It takes a lot of will in character, preservation, wisdom and passion to overlook the most blandest of philosophy. Sometimes it isn’t enough to just say “I’ll create my own meaning” which is why it takes a while to adapt to acceptance. The stages of grief, the light at the end of the tunnel or so they say.

    Accepting that we are humans, that we are susceptible to such emotions and thoughts, no matter how crude or stupid they may be, accepting of the fact that the world isn’t black and white, but many hues of red, blue, and yellow, of anger, sadness, and joy, that sort of thing.

    But that mentality is coexisting with existentialism, so I like to call it “Existentialism but not really”.

    When you accept something, you also devalue it. You strip away their meaning and create your own, and often times that meaning is neutral, so it devalues it. It holds no morality, poses no danger, nothing to fear. It is as I often say, “Why be pessimistic if there is nothing to be pessimistic about?” Bending existentialism so you feel nothing for the harsher aspects of life, while taking in the good ones at full capacity. Enjoying them more, stopping to smell the roses, watching the world more closely, even watching paint dry becomes a thing of mystery and wonder, and you become happy because you learn to accept it. You begin to live life the emotions it can give you. Being happy that you can be sad. And you find more to your humanity than ever befor.

    Life no longer becomes a series of obstacles, but a carnival with many more rides that opened up to you. Tasting the finer wine thoroughly.

    But I totally digress by going on and on. I love philosophy and your words speak to me in a level that I wanted to be spoken to, and I have deep respect. You’re much older than me, more knowledgeable about the world around you, you know more stuff, and that makes you wiser in its own respect. You’ve raised a fine son by giving him a freedom and respect that I could only wish of from my own parents. You’ve given thoughtful insight and words to a growing adult, and he’s become the better for it.

    Sometimes I wonder if I’m just a kid with grown thoughts though… I’ll keep thinking till my days grow tired or short, and perhaps I’ll grow smarter or wiser for it, but here’s to hoping.

    Your other son has done well too. And to Mrs. Hanson too. Not forgetting Suzy and Arin’s friends as well. You all have been doing something that has moved me in an emotional and mindful way, and that’s the biggest honor that I can give you all. The fact that you’ve helped me feel more, learn more, and appreciate more. That’s also your biggest honor that you can grant to me, so it works both ways, and I’m thankful for it, thankful to you and your family.

    I’ll quote everything I said in the healing horse therapy page on Facebook towards Mrs. Hanson.

    “I’m sure it must have been rough though. Infamy usually over-powers good deeds, and if you’re anything like traditional parents, the “crude” aspects of his work is lightly taken. But that doesn’t change the fact that he’s placed many smiles on many many faces, I know he has with me, and it’s even greater to know he is doing something good with the large opportunity he has. Truly something to be proud of. It’s certainly hard to come across a family so devoted. To all of your family’s work, and especially to everyone of you personally, I wish you the best of luck, good tidings, and prosperous health.”

    I sincerely hope the best of luck and good tidings for you all. It’s great to see such a nice piece of humanity that rests in each of you.

  9. Phillip Scott says:

    Except its was not meant to be popularity contest. I am a gamer and a Lindsey fan and Lindsey didn’t need money anyway and the exposure was great for her. I think kudos goes to all the contestants for effort they put in and winner really irelivent. I also follow a few streams though mostly ZiggyD and Kripparian (sorry) but I have seen how programmers and gamers can tank a site when their favorite streamer is seen to be unfairly punished and an online voting system is much harder to crack. Also I agree that a lot of the Lindsey comments are not best but the most hateful and insulting posts came from Egoraptor supporters. One final question for you, can you honestly say Egoraptor out performed Lindsey? Remember its not a handicap race and not dependant on what skills people had at start, it was a straight up dancing competition.

  10. Old_Fart_With_guitars says:

    Phillip, I have to take issue with something. I followed the competition pretty closely, at least as far as the comments. I found the Egoraptor supporters tended to stay within the Egoraptor page for their comments. You could go through pages and pages of comments on Lindsey’s page without ever seeing any Egoraptor fans making comments. But you could barely get through a single page of Egoraptor comments without one or more snarky or downright rude comments from Lindsey fans.

    To answer your last question, it doesn’t really matter what I think. I wasn’t a judge and after about the first week or so, I stopped voting with any regularity. Several months after the conclusion of the online voting, very little has changed in the public lives of any of the competitors. I don’t think life would be any different at this point if Lindsey had won (or for that matter anyone else).

    When online vote gathering takes place and is weighed in to the final tally, it’s not always about who is the best. It’s about who can muster the best fanbase turnout. Regardless of what was said and published, the competition was all about page views and votes. The promotion company gathered enough varied Youtube talent to guarantee that the views and the votes would be there.

    But to fairly answer your question, yes, I think Egoraptor outperformed Lindsey. You can quibble about that, but the question you should have asked is who I thought was the better dancer. In that regard Lindsey’s dancing skills were superior to everyone else’s from the start. You mention it’s not a handicap race, but really it is, no matter how you want it to be. If it weren’t, none of the male competitors would have survived. It’s comparatively easy to take an adorable 5’2″ female, pair her with a skilled dancing coach and make her look like a polished dance performer, especially when she has the sense of rhythm and timing that is required of being a skilled professional musician. It’s far harder to take a hulking 6’2″ 220 pound male and make him look like anything other than the creature from the dance scene in Mel Brooks’ “Young Frankenstein.” That Arin has zero musical training and works in a medium that isn’t remotely related to a music/rhythm/graceful art says a lot about his determination and Maxine’s ability to get him where he needed to be in such a short time frame. Considering the size disparity between Arin and Maxine it’s even more striking.

    I’m not trying to take anything away from any of the competitors or their coaches.

    Everyone in the competition had their moments. They’ve all moved on… as should we.

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